Brown delivers
That's in line with numbers from Arian Foster and still vastly superior to Chris Johnson. Brown is clearly a boom/bust runner, which is what he was drafted to be. Still, one has to believe that had Manning been his quarterback, he would have posted success rate numbers in the mid-40s as he had his first two years in the league.
You have to really twist numbers to make Brown a good back=leads the league in east west yards-This does not pass the eyeball test. Brown could not block a breese, avoids contact, and could not run through Kroggers other than that he is Hall of Fame--------really
@Blue@Heart Actually, he graded out great as a blocker. You should do some research and use facts instead of the eyeball test.
The eyeball test has no value. At all.
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@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @Heart The eyeball test has tremendous value, depending on the eyeballs.
Unless you're saying that scouts/GM's should stop wasting their time with game tape and just read stats.
@Nate Dunlevy @omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart Thanks for the answer. I guess we will never know, but I´m convinced the benching of Donald Brown for the 2010 playoff game, minor as it may look, will end up having played a crucial role in several areas for the franchise.
@Goéland @omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart They fired Gene Huey. My understanding is that it was decision made in the offseason. I don't know that much about it, other than they made a sharp change of direction with the way RBs were coached to block (and do other things)
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart Do you?
Reading a Wells article has never done anyone good. If he's your authority, you might as quit now.
@Nate Dunlevy @omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart Nate, I really enjoy your insights about the way things were run inside the organization. What you mentioned about cut blocking is interesting. Do you think the only reason they encouraged it last year was because Peyton wasn´t on the field, and so it didn´t matter if blockers were near the QB´s knees? Or was there an additional reason, linked to a change in philosophy?
@Nate Dunlevy @omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
do you understand what "facts" means?
go read wells article. it would do you good.
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart I wasn't aware of any? Do you mean his yards per game? Irrelevant. He hasn't had that many carries (going back to the coaching issue I mentioned before).
Do you mean McCoy and Rice being drafted later? That doesn't prove Polian was looking to draft an every down back. That's just an absurd claim. He wasn't trying to draft an every down back, and to say he was is to ignore everything that happened RB-wise since 2006.
Other than that, you haven't actually had ANY facts. You've made a bunch of false claims. But no facts.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
sure he did
and you havent touched the facts i laid out.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
sure i can. just like you can claim flawed statistics claim he was good. he was not featured for a reason.
and wells debunked the great donald brown awhile back. check it out. the facts for him being a poor football player are there.
what did he average again? probably like 50 yards a game. i will look this up later.
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart "you can blame coaching all you want for brown. if he were as productive as you say, he would have been playing more. its that simple"
No. It's not that simple. He played increasing well at the end of 2010, and had a huge game and was promptly buried by the coaches (now unemployed) for no good reason.
Those coaches were stupid. No one will argue otherwise.
You can't say "it's that simple" when there's clear direct evidence that it's not.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
haha ok yeah. addai and brown were late 1st round picks. so what? was mjd a 1st round pick? mccoy? ray rice? how is that for a fact? has brown hit 1000 yard rushing yet? no. how is that for a fact? how is that delivering?
you can blame coaching all you want for brown. if he were as productive as you say, he would have been playing more. its that simple. do you think if peterson was a colt, they wouldnt play him? of course they would because his play would dictate it. that didnt happen with brown. for reasons you are sidestepping.
of course the colts offensive line has been below average. so has browns play. he finally improved some last year. props to him. he still never delivered.
1 good game in 2010 and a handful of games over 4 ypc last year and you want me to provide stats how he has not been delivering? didnt you do that for me?
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart Wait, you realize Edge James was a top 5 pick right? And Addai and Brown were bottom of the first round? You can't see how that's not the same thing?
Give it up. You got curb stomped in this. You don't know your facts. You don't know the history. You don't have stats or data or anything but opinions, and not particularly well informed or credible ones.
Everyone is welcome to their opinion. They are also welcome to be dead wrong. Have any other points you wish to make on this topic? Care to actually get a fact right?
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart 2 years? could be. that isnt the point but you are probably correct
i am sure you can find quotes from polian about the 2 back system and how he was looking for that. and that is a bunch of bs. he would have loved to have a bell cow like james again. he just failed to draft him. in addai and brown
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@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart This is where facts come in handy.
Addai had 2 years left on his deal, not one.
The Colts had run a two back offense ever since Addai's rookie year. They wanted a second back to get back to it after not really running it in 2008. Fools assumed Brown was drafted to replace Addai because they weren't paying attention to anything the team was saying, Addai's contract, or recent history.
Brown was hurt for most of the first half of 2010. When he finally healed up he produced elite receiving numbers and finally broke through on the ground. Right at that time, the coaches bailed on him, in a mistake that I savaged at the time.
You REALLY need to go back and study the details better.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
you covered it heavily? ok. that doesnt make you correct. he was drafted the year addai was to hit free agency. he was addais replacement. you can say he wasnt all you want but i wont believe it. it makes no sense.
brown was not effective in 2010. you arguing for it doesnt change the fact that he was bad. dom rhodes played ahead of him because he was piss poor in pass protection and he was indecisive in the backfield. he is still indecisive in the backfield. and his lack of playing time did not cost us anything.
brown was drafted into an offense that he didnt fit. he needs to play with a fullback.
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart He was absolutely not drafted to replace Addai. Addai was NEVER the problem with the run game. The whole 'replace Addai' meme was drummed up by fans who had no earthly clue what they were talking about it. I covered this heavily at the time.
As for last year, that's very much germane. I argued all last season that Brown was effective, then he broke off a huge game and the coaches buried him in favor of Dom Rhodes, and that move cost Indy a playoff game. Then they moved him behind Carter to start the year, which was patently insane.
I think Brown was a victim of a terrible coaching staff that had its head up its butt on many many, things. So, yes, his huge game against Jacksonville is in fact proof that he should have been playing more at the end of that year and early in 2011
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
our definition of "good game" is probably way off
i dont think he was drafted to compliment addai. he was drafted to replace addai. addai had to be resigned because brown was horrible and unreliable.
1 big game against the jags in 2010 shouldnt even be brought up. it was 1 good game. mungro had good games but nobody was saying he "delivered"
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart 1. I was shocked they were going to cut blocking. It was a MAJOR no-no for years b/c Manning didn't want guys around his knees.
2. I saw massive improvement in Brown's blocking, so I wasn't surprised to see that his numbers were good. I was surprised they were AS good as they were.
3. I feel the Colts line and coaches held Brown back. My point with the six games was just that your assertion that he 'had a good game or two' is patently false.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
1) cut blocking a dt or de then fine. lbers are considered too athletic. i find it hard to believe they want him cut blocking lbers. but hey, somebody told you that so it must be the truth. he has improved his pass blocking. but is he really one of the best in the league at it? do you really believe that?
2) 4 ypc in 6 games. wow. thats pro bowl material right there. i will get back to this later
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart 2. A guy on the team told me that were allowed to cut block for the first time ever under the new RB coach. They were encouraged to do it as a way of avoiding getting driven back. Brown's block percentage was good, so no matter what you think you saw, you are wrong.
2. You haven't backed up your opinion. Brown was over 4 YPC in six games last year. He also had the game of his life in the biggest game of the year for the Colts in 2010, helping to beat the Jaguars. He was in fact drafted for his home run ability. He was drafted to split time with Addai, and provide some big play ability. He's had way more than "one or two good games'. You can repeat that all you want, it's still no true.
I'm still waiting for one single piece of evidence to support any claim you have made.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
2) they trained their rb's to cut linebackers? where did you find that info? that is a pass blocking no no. lbers are too athletic and can make you pay for trying to cut them. i have always been under the impression that is frowned upon by most everybody
3) not really. my opinion and backed up that he actually wasnt that productive outside of a few games. he is way too much of a boom or bust player. and no he wasnt drafted to be that
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart 1. I totally agree. Some things they don't do well (O line and secondary numbers are suspect). Blocking by RBs is fairly easy to track, so in this case, their numbers are easy to verify.
2. The Colts actually trained their RBs to cut for the first time in forever this year. They WANTED RBs to cut.
3. It's fine for YOU to trust your eyeballs, but don't expect anyone else to trust YOUR eyeballs. My eyeballs told me he was really good. The stats back me up. All you have is your opinion, devoid of any evidence of all.
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart Nope. Prove it. Already been plenty of articles written about how he's good. Burden of proof squarely on you.
@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart
1) PFF is not the authority on everything.
2) brown has improved as a pass blocker. that much was evident. he still at times cut block a linebacker. which you dont do as a blocker.
3) i trust my eyeball test over statistics all the time. you may not care about my eyeball test but i do. saying donald brown delivered last year is just not accurate
@Blue@Heart @omahacolt @lawyerjay Actually, he's not a terrible blocker. They just game out with the RB blocking stats, and he was one of the best in the league.
So, yeah, you're wrong.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/30/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/
@Nate Dunlevy @omahacolt @lawyerjay @Heart
I would love for Brown to be a great back --but he is not-speed- but can not run through contact and is terrible blocker--coaches can not trust him in late game situations because he could not pickup a blitiz if his life depended on it! But he is fast at east west yards.
@omahacolt @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart He had a lot more than "1 or two good games".
IT's much easier to prove Brown is a good back than a bad one.
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@Nate Dunlevy @Blue@Heart @lawyerjay @Heart i disagree
brown had a very good game or two. he is not a very good player
@Blue@Heart @lawyerjay The Stats.
I KILLED the coaches for benching Brown non-stop. Finally, they had to play him because he was vastly superior to Carter. Finally, when he did play, he was very good.
Then those coaches all got fired because they were terrible.
Eyes lie. They lead to mistakes.
@Nate Dunlevy @lawyerjay @Heart
And your- writing- or spewing reflect your worthless eye balls! Forget the results You know better---I thought last year Coachs and GM and the Colts, demoted Brown and put him behind an unproven rookie==are you interested in their eyeball-or just your research?
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@lawyerjay @Blue@Heart @Heart Obviously.
Fan eyeball tests are utterly worthless however. They are code for "I'm too lazy to do any real research and want to spew biases that I can't prove".
Unless someone is a scout, coach, or GM of an NFL team, I'm not particularly interested in their eyeballs.
