Did Gregg William's Illegal Bounty System Help End Peyton Manning's Career in Indianapolis?
A bombshell report rocked the NFL today as word of an illegal bounty system imposed by then Saints Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams reached the public. Players were rewarded financially for injuries caused to opposing stars.
Now, players claim such a system was in place in Washington during Williams' tenure. This begs the question: were the egregious hits on Peyton Manning part of that bounty?
Tony Dungy claimed that the neck problems that ultimately cost Manning the entire 2011 season started in 2006 after a vicious hit by the Redskins defense.
UPDATE:
Here's a second video with TV commentary, courtesy of Scott Kacsmar.
Now, with Williams openly admitting to placing bounties on players, and evidence mounting that such behavior extended back to his days with the 'Skins, it seems at least plausible that Manning's troubles could be the direct result of the illegal and immoral actions of Gregg Williams.
Williams participation as a primary organizer is not in dispute, but whether this particular hit was part of that system is merely conjecture.
You can be sure that Colts fans' will add their voices to the rising choir calling for a permanent ban of Gregg Williams from organized football.
Manning suffered with extreme neck pain for years, enduring hours of painful traction each week. Ultimately, he had a series of surgeries designed to relieve his pain. After three procedures from May to September 2011, Manning missed the entire season, and now awaits word of whether he'll ultimately be released by the Colts.
Regardless of whether Manning's career is cut short or merely resolves in another city, the hit and subsequent years of pain will not be quickly forgotten.
Gregg Williams has fully admitted his guilt as far his time in New Orleans goes. That admission alone should be enough to ensure he never walks an NFL sideline again.
UPDATE: This 2010 story indicates that Manning's neck issues go back several years. He says 'four' in the article, which would place the start of his troubles in 2006.
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As a lifelong Redskins fan, I don't like it (condone) one bit to learn about G. Williams and his bounty program. I remember watching the game and seeing the hit and it was really bad to watch in slow motion. I didn't think it was "dirty" per se and I don't recall the commentators saying as much but it was vicious. What I do remember is, it was a very close game at the half. P.Manning then came out in the second half and torched our defense, made them look awful, and the Colts cruised to an easy win. The two involved in that play, Carter and Daniels, by all accounts are stand up men and I never recall them having any off the field issues and they both did a lot of good work in the community too. So that type of behavior has to be taught as acceptable and part of the game for them to buy into it so easily. In other words, from a coach.
It's a violent enough sport already, so I don't have any issue with the NFL not tolerating this type of "pay as you destroy" a quarterback or any other player. Sure, I sit in my easy chair and say the refs protect the qb's too much and the new (last year) kickoff rule takes an element out of the real game and on Madden (for all the gamers) as well. I'm pretty sure Josh Cribbs would agree with me.
But in 40 years, I bet history will look back and the player's union too and thank the commish for making it safer to ply their trade, while still retaining the core of what it means to strap on a helmet and go out there and play your tail off.
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Am I the only person that reacted like Sonny Corleone going after the Turk when I read this? $50 CASH to the first Colts Authority reader that brings me the scalp of Greg Williams
RE: Bounty system. The Redskins hit on Manning was intentional
The NFL released a statement saying the New Orleans Saints had a "bounty" program while Gregg Williams was the team's defensive coordinator. The program rewarded players for inflicting game-ending injuries on opposing players.
The Washington Post reported that the NFL will investigate the allegations made by five Redskins players and a former coach that Gregg Williams operated a "pay for performance" system in Washington similar to the one the NFL revealed he administered from 2009-2011 with the New Orleans Saints.
During a 2011 preseason edition of NBC's "Football Night in America," the former Colts coach Tony Dungy pointed to a violent shot Manning took against the Redskins in Week 7 of 2006 as the origin of Manning's neck issues. The defensive coordinator of that Redskins team was Gregg Williams.
According to a report in The Washington Post Dungy said Manning’s neck was wrenched and his helmet ripped off when he took a low hit by Andre Carter, followed by a high hit by Phillip Daniels. When Manning got up, he stretched his neck and shook his right arm as if trying to get the feeling back in it. Daniels, who now is the team's director of player development, has admitted to taking part in the bounty program.
On the play, Manning released the ball just before Redskins defensive ends Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels converged upon him. While Carter came in around Manning's waist and brought the quarterback down to his knees, Daniels came in high, bending Manning's head and neck back and knocking his helmet off in the process.
"The guy wouldn't let go of my head," Manning, who was bent back violently by the impact, said of Daniels after the game. "I looked at my helmet to see if my head was in it."
"I'm yelling at the ref [Scott Green], 'Where's the flag! Where's the flag!,'" Dungy said, courtesy of the Washington Post. "And I don't yell much, but I did then. So I didn't notice Peyton calling timeout and being shaken up. Peyton came to the sideline and said to [backup] Jim Sorgi, 'Jim, start warming up.' As the timeout went on, he said to us, 'I can stay in, but we need to run the ball here.'" Now, as I look back on it, there's no doubt in my mind that this was the start of his neck problems."
Former Redskins defensive back Matt Bowen, who played under Williams in 2004 and 2005, wrote a column for Saturday's Chicago Tribune detailing his involvement in the Redskins' bounty system. "It was a system we all bought into," Bowen wrote. "I ate it up. It's hard not to, not when you're playing for a coach like Gregg Williams, my defensive coordinator while I was with the Washington Redskins."
It looks like Greg Williams may be indirectly responsible for cutting short the careers of three Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks; Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Brett Favre. What is disturbing is that Williams instilled this idea into the heads of his players that his way of doing things wasn’t just the superior way; it was the right way to win. Ending the careers of players is not the way to go about the game but with this man in charge we have seen a lot of careers ended and we may see another one cut short too and this time it’s Peyton Manning
How to you take average players and make them the equal of Hall of Fame players? You turn them into guided missles, turn the safeties off in their heads, and you launch them at Hall-of-Fame players for the purposes of hurting them to the point they can't stand.
It looks like Greg Williams may be indirectly responsible for cutting short the careers of three Hall-of-Fame quarterbacks; Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Brett Favre. The NFL has got to put this to an end. How many other careers have been cut short because of this? Does someone have to get killed before it's stopped?
Maybe the Saints would have beaten the 49's if instead of this swagger BS and trying to deliver a knockout blow, they'd have JUST PLAYED DEFENSE.
I know everyone wants to blame Williams but it was the players that followed through with this. No skill involved to hurt someonebut a lot of players are taught from the very begining as kids that you go out to win doing what ever it takes with the parents cheering them on.
@dangrs158 Absolutely, most players are retards and do what they are told. They can't think for themselves, that's why Williams has to be banned from the NFL.
im suprised that no one has mentioned the vikings / saints play off game, where it was beyond obvious they were out to put farve on a stretcher. i dont think there is a greater evidence of head hunting in a game. id be interested to his reactions to this. williams should never be allowed to be associated with organized sports again and anyone else who knew should be penatlized as well.
The original story said there were payments of $1,500 for knocking someone out and $1,000 if they were taken of the field on a cart. I can understand rewards for fumbles, best hit, etc. But there is a line and rewarding a player because he just forced another player off the field on a cart is way across that line. Fisher has to do something, but if he fires Williams after he played a part in it with Williams with the Titans, that would be really hypocritical. I wonder how the Rams fans feel since Williams bounty hunted their favorite son Kurt Warner?
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I was frustrated at Williams in the playoffs two years ago long before our super bowl matchup. It was obvious that this was the kind of team they were trying to be. I'm all for hard-hitting football, but they were obviously taking things to another level.
Now this comes out. I despise this man above anyone else in the NFL today.
I want to be shocked by this news...but I'm not. Sad. Hurting is not defending...it is cheating.
Both Lamey and Stockton didn't even see him get hit or mention it until later. Freaking lousy broadcasting.I remember that hit and was amazed he got right back in. As hideous as that was that really could have started the neck issues. Interesting.
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Offering someone money to harm someone else? Isn't that a conspiracy to commit assault? Gregg Williams should be brought up fucking felony charges, along with any player who collected one of these despicable bounties. Though I would probably let the players plea down in exchange for testimony.
I was at that game. It's already been mentioned but you can see him clutching his right shoulder when he's face down on the field. I'd like to fight Greg Williams right now.
If NFL doesn't get rid of Greg Williams.. They would have one less NFL fan.. PM is as close as it gets to be the superman of NFL and from what I see.. its not even debatable who is the greatest asset of NFL get thrown out of his game because of a cheapo like this Greg.. I am a colts fan and Peyaton F Manning fan..
WOW!!! I can't see how the NFL would not ban this guy. He openly admitted to offering bounties to injury players. No way he should not be banned.
Greg Williams should be banned from the NFL! I am a Colts season ticket holder and this enrages me. Some should put a bounty on Greg Williams and anyone else involved. Completely irresponsible!
There needs to be a full-scale investigation into every one of Williams' coaching jobs in the NFL. And Williams should owe Manning and the Colts about $100 million dollars.
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Has anyone put a bounty on Gregg Williams yet? We could pass around a helmet, collect some money, and then when someone brings us Williams' scrotum, have it made into a keychain for Manning...
I didn't think my hatred for Gregg Williams could get any more intense. First I have to watch innumerable replays of that bloody pick 6, and now it comes to light that he caused the injury we're losing Peyton to?
Ban him for life, fine him $500,000. Suspend all players clearly involved for at least 4 games, and those like Vilma should be banned for more.
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This is absolutely horrific if true and this was the hit that started it all. I'm just speechless.
If you watch, you can see Manning immediately reach to his upper right arm, near the shoulder area. Maybe feeling some numbness or burning.
He should never be allowed to coach the game of football again at any level if he can't teach and coach it the right way.
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What I love about that incident is the way Manning single-handedly DEMOLISHED that Redskins defense, with three TDs in a ten-minute span in the third quarter.
What still pisses me off about that game is that neither of those two hits - those blatantly, frustratingly, obviously flagrant and illegal hits - drew a personal foul.
And Gregg Williams can go DIAF.
I know the opinion of some random blue collar guy in Southern Indiana means absolutely nothing to him, but if Williams still has a job by Monday morning then I will lose a lot of respect for Jeff Fisher.
@Music Man Can you imagine the reaction if he ever came into the Luke? I think it could be a security risk. Surely nobody would want to take that on.
Just wondering, who has been given a lifetime ban from the NFL and for what? Just want to know if this despicable thing Williams did (I would be less outraged if players privately set it up) is in line with other actions of people receiving long bans.
@dmstorm22 The only lifetime bans I know of have been as a result of drug-related offenses of off-the-field incidents.
This is really a remarkable and historic moment for the league. If the commissioner insists on the kind of serious fines and penalties he's staked his legacy upon thus far then this kind of offense should attract a stiff penalty. I'm talking draft picks for the Saints--multiple year firsts. I'm talking about a serious suspension and or ban for Williams, possibly for his head coaches and assistants as well. The players who participated should definitely face suspensions.
I'm with Ben here: hand out heavy fines in order to provide no incentive to teams to ever attempt this kind of unsafe, unethical system again.
