(Ed. note: I've replaced the word surgery in both the headline and story with the more precise word 'procedure')
The latest bombshell in the mysterious case of Peyton Manning's health was unleashed by Don Banks of Sports Illustrated today.
In it, he claimed that Manning had an additional procedure (note: I originally used the word surgery) beyond what was reported, and that the Colts fear his neck issues could become chronic.
He also gave details of Manning's December workout the week before the Colts first win of the season against Tennessee. Banks description of Manning's lack of velocity and fatigue match what I personally have heard about the workout.
Manning's intent was to show his ability to throw late in the season by running a red zone offense for the Colts as his range was limited under 25 yards. The plan was quickly scuttled as team doctors shut him down after the labored workout. The session was not encouraging, and the Colts gave up hope that he could see the field in 2011.
It's important to note that many of the details of Banks report have been mentioned by insiders for months now. While there are certainly new revelations in his article, it would be foolish to dismiss them as recent fabrications by the Colts front office. The story of the December workout is very similar to what was said after that workout took place in mid-December, well before the PR blitz began.
Whether the Colts' concerns for Manning's health are valid or not is impossible to know. I do believe them to be honest and long-standing, however, and not merely the result of posturing. While Manning may still make a full recovery and return to a high level of play in the NFL, it is anything but a given. Banks story illustrates full well why the Colts can't possibly exercise the $28 million option on Peyton Manning.
While a healthy Peyton Manning would be worth every penny of the option, there is simply not enough evidence that he is or ever will be healthy to exercise that option.
Banks' story also reveals something very important about Manning's mindset toward coming back: it is not fully rational.
There was no possible way for Manning to play in 2011. It was a complete pipe dream. He was nowhere near game ready, but believed he was. Manning is absolutely determined to play in 2012, but no one should take his certainty or determination as evidence that he will be capable of doing so.
He was determined and certain in December as well, but simply did not have an accurate assessment of his own ability.
Peyton Manning will certainly try to play in 2012. Whether he makes it back is anyone's guess.
I tend to look at who has more to gain by not being truthful. What would Irsay possibly gain by saying Manning is not healthy when he is? What does Manning have to gain by saying he is healthy when he is not? What does each stand to lose if the situation is reversed? What if Irsay was to say Manning is healthy when he is not? What if Manning said he was not healthy? I believe the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Which means you can not sign Manning to his current contract under the belief he may not be Peyton Manning. Why would Manning say he is willing to sign an incentive based contract if his is totally healthy? Why would Irsay not pay a totally healthy Manning his contract? I hope Manning gets as healthy as possible just from a human stand point. I would love to see him come back as the Peyton Manning we all have grown to love and cheer for but when there is no timetable for his health and there is a timetable to make a decision, you have to make a business decision based on the long term future. I want Manning to remain a Colt but not at the expense of the Colts long term future.
The only people on record who have actually seen Manning throw, Polian, Joe Addai, and Adam Vinateiri, have been very positive about Manning's rehab. I fail to believe that all three of them are not being truthful, as not one of them seems to have any agenda. I do believe that Irsay has an agenda, and that agenda is to convince Manning to retire, ether because he is truly concerned about Manning's long term health, or truly wants Manning to retire so he (Irsay) does not have realease him and face the fan rebellion that will undoubtably occur.
Of course 18 wanted to come back and play in 2011, he's Peyton Freaking Manning!
He has always pushed himself right up to the edge of his ability, and then pushed just a little further. I don't know why he would treat rehab any differently.
He is one of, if not the most competitive athlete in all of pro sports. It would surprise me more if he didn't work out with trusted friends at game speed in an attempt to get back on the field in any capacity possible.
The fact that he wasn't quite there isn't shocking to me, but neither is the fact that Manning wouldn't take NO for an answer and had to try anyway.
Of course he thinks he will play again, it's in his DNA, and he will continue to work as hard as he can, and then work a little harder, to get back to the level of perfection that he expects from himself.
Another great read from Nate Irsay. A couple points worth noting. Nobody except Nate has called this a surgery. Banks said procedure not surgery. It could have been something as simple as a cortisone shot. If it was something that required any significant rehab we would have all already heard about it. Either way it was irrelevent after the fusion. If that's splitting hairs, it's an elephant hair. Also the same Dr.Feuer who just said "If you were my son I'd tell you to go play" is the one who shut Manning down after the Dec workout. It was stated that Mannings neck muscles were still not strong enough at that time and that is why Manning was NOT cleared to practice or play at that time. This wasn't a practice. It was a scheduled rehab session dictated by the doctors and the Colts strength and conditioning staff. It wasn't a desperate attempt by Manning. It was a test on Manning by the Colts staff. Based on the results of this session it sounds like Manning has made significant progress since that time. Nothing new and relevent was leaked by Irsay, I mean unnamed sources. Just more spin from Camp Irsay. Irsay wants to negotiate Manning's contract through the media, and he is trying to save face through the media. Look everyone, I had no choice. Way to keep it in the family Jimbo. Who's the politician now? Can you imagine what it would be like to be Peyton Manning right now. Trying to rehab through a serious injury and having to listen to all this crap. Having everyone that you trust removed and the only people that remain ask you to call them unnamed source. I'd be working out at Duke as well.
I think i is pertinent to view Polian's continued comments. After the mid-December workout, Polian stated that Manning was throwig 20-25 yards, and was throwing with "good' velocity, and was throwing100% better than in Sepember. That story seems to check out, as 80% of his normal velocity should be considered at a "good" level Then, a few weeks later, Polian sees another workout that seems to validate Mortnsen's claim that Manning is showing continued improvemet. Polian said Mannng was throwing accurately, with passes that were not wobbly (he stated wth good spiral), and was throwing from hash to hash (the most difficult throw QBs make), and was throwing across his body, to both sides of the field, and was throwing "well." Polian, of all people, has no reason not to tell the truth. If nothing else, it does demonstrate that the nerve is regeneratng, and his arm strength has already came a long way.
Any chance we can get someone to start looking at what Grigson/Pagano will be doing in either resigning or letting go of free agents as well as signing free agents assuming they'll implement a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3 and bringing in a rookie QB? I know there's been articals on cap related projections for Freeney, Clark, Saturday... how about the next level of the team (Tamme, Foster, Diem, Lacey, Pollack) and low level free agents?
I'm getting tired of the same old Irsay/Manning back and forth and conflicting reporter heresay, its beginning to feel like ESPN/TMZ around here. The new league year is starting soon and the team has other issues to address than QB.
@southdodger I understand why you hold that opinion. I don't think it's reflective of the reality of the situation. There will certainly not be a fan rebellion. Everyone knows what's coming, and even if you believe the most rosy of the statements, there's still nothing approaching the kind of certainty the Colts would need to have to pay Manning $28 million.
There's no possible way that money should be paid no matter who you believe, so why would the fans revolt?
@Peyton for President You're probably right. I should change the wording from surgery to procedure. It's more correct.
As for the rest, you are simply wrong. This isn't coming from Irsay. This all was being said well before Irsay decided they had to move on.
For a long time everyone was worried Irsay would do the insane thing and actually stick with Manning when every one else in the org knew it was unwise.
@southdodger And Kraviz also called Polian's comments "a bald faced lie", which didn't surprise me because it was the exact opposite of what everyone else was saying privately about his progress. I was shocked by Polian's report as it ran counter to everything I heard.
You simply can't take anything anyone has said after January 10 with anything but a grain of salt. The truth was being told back in December, but once this turned into a PR war all bets are off.
You are free to believe whatever you want and trust whatever voices you want. Everyone should be aware that there are lots of people lying right now. Outright lying. On one side or the other or both.
Trust no one. That's my advice.
@Westhoff Nothing happens until the Peyton issue is settled. Cap situation is too tight and too fluid. Gotta solve the big issue first.
@Nate Dunlevy I agree that, unless Manning is able to throw at 75% and is definitely improving by the first couple of weeks of March, Irsay should not pay the bonus, but even if Manning is not at 75% and is definitely progressing, Irsay should make a good faith attempt to sign him, and not the scherade that we have seen, which has all been an attempt by Irsay and his minions to do nothing but sway public opinion. Manning deserves better than what he has got from this organization, and no matter what you think, this will haunt Irsay more than trading away John Unitas did to his father. In this ne age of communication, people will not forget, and NFL free agents will not, either.
@Nate Dunlevy You made my point for me. If this was all being said already, then why is Banks writing about it now? If I owned a football team or any other business with media relations for that matter, and I wanted to control leaks from inside I say "Next person that leaks anything is fired". The fact that this leaked information has continued is proof that Irsay approves of it.
@Peyton for President Oh, and it was VERY much a desperate attempt. To paint what happened in December as a 'scheduled rehab session' is simply incorrect. It was a deliberate attempt by Manning to try and see field time despite absolutely no ability to play. The workout was a disaster and he was immediately shut down after it.
@Nate Dunlevy If htere is anyone who has an agenda in this situation, and has had one since November, it is Kraviz. I believe he had direct communication with Irsay, is acting as a spokesman of Irsay, and we know what Irsay's agenda is.
@Nate Dunlevy That's why I'm asking to make an assumption one way or another... or hell compare and contrast what the team might do differently w/ the rest of the team based on who might be the starting QB.
The teams at a cross-road, rather than bicker about why they're there and add fuel to a frenzy. How about some analysis rather than more opinions? Analysis and common sense point of views is why I frequent this site. Seems you're getting stuck in a rut.
@Nate Dunlevy@southdodger Info was leaked to you before the Kravitz interview. I heard Jackie McMullen? say she had inside info that was similar to what you heard. And I had read the same thing in a couple of other places though I don't remember by who. I thought the Rob Lowe tweet was before the Kravitz interview. I could be wrong. Either way I can completely understand why Manning was frustrated. Irsay on the other hand has been acting like a total jackass. Saying one thing, doing another. I was saying a 180 from when they signed this contract. I believe if the Colts had won 4-5 games this year we wouldn't be having this convo. Irsay wants to do what he thinks is best for the franchise long term, the next 10-15 years. My problem with that is your giving up a chance to win a Superbowl in the next 3-4 years, and you are sweeping the greatest player in franchise history under the rug. I believe Irsay knew how this was going to play out before he fired Polian. I believe this has alot more to do with Luck than anything else. Ever since the Colts locked up the #1 pick it seemed like Irsay was hoping Manning would just quietly go away and retire.
@Peyton for President@southdodger I think your time line is incorrect. All Irsay did before the Kravitz interview was basically not mention Peyton at all in the Griggson presser. I'm not sure what statements by Irsay there were before that.
The problem with the leaked information about Peyton is that it IS true. That's the issue. Manning has been countering because he wants another job.
Irsay's 180 is not since last year. It's since January 1. After the Polian firing, it looked like he was going to keep Peyton. Something happened between that and the Kravitz interview to change his mind. I have no idea what that was.
I'd love to know.
@Nate Dunlevy@southdodger Irsay was leaking info long before the Kravitz interview. Even after the Kravitz interview, which was supposed to be about Eli by the way, Irsay took shots at Peyton, "Keep it in the family, Peyton has scattered plenty of egg shells around here over the years, He's just being a politician, blah, blah blah". If Irsay would have practiced what he preaches fans wouldn't be so bitter at him. Irsay's handling of this has been nothing short of disgracefull. Anytime something new is leaked people believe it as true when Peyton doesn't respond. Manning has every right to tell his side of the story. If Manning kept quiet we'd all be waiting for his retirement presser. This was started by Irsay and it's pretty obvious why.One thing I do agree with Nate on is Manning no longer wants to be a Colt, but it's only because Irsay has done a complete 180 since last year.
@southdodger 1. Manning fired the first shots in the media war with his Kravitz interview. 2. Why do you think Irsay set off the Rob Lowe thing? 3. Irsay's public statements have been more accurate and truthful than Manning's.
He's lousy at the PR game. He should have kept his mouth shut. But it was Manning that was angling to make him look bad. I believe Manning has played this whole thing up so people would feel sorry for him, even as he walked out. I think the Colts are doing everything to sign Manning. I don't think Manning wants to be signed.
That's how I read it.
@Nate Dunlevy I am not mad at the Colts. I am mad a Irsay for all his schneggians. There is no way I would pay the 28 million, but I would have done all in my power to sign a player who has increased the value of this franchise tremendously all by himself, and made me tens of millions of dollars.
Irsay sent the first broadside thru his buddy, Rob Lowe, and other subtle references have followed, all in a public relations attempt. I have lost all respect for Irsay, and that won't return no matter what happens. However, I doubt he is worrying about it.
@southdodger "The Colts did not do Manning any favors..."
You seem to think this was a bad deal for Manning. I'm amazed you can come to that conclusion. He has all the leverage here because of that deal.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you have a very realistic understanding of this situation.
Manning isn't healthy, not even by the most optimistic versions. I can't understand why you are mad at the Colts here. What choice do they have in this matter?
You really want me, but you want me only if I cut my salary. You really want me, but you want to gut the team so I can't help us win. You really want me, but you are going to bring in my replacement. No thanks!
@Nate Dunlevy The Colts franchised Manning, so they were in "hock" to him for $23 million before the 2-4th procedures. Injuries happen, so the Colts paid him as all NFL teams do to players who get injured. They Colts did not do Manning any favors by signing him to the contract as it was written, as they had the out this March. They owed him $23 million anyway. People who say the Colts made a good will move to Manning by signing him don't know what they are talking about.
@southdodger Irsay is making a good faith attempt to sign him. The thing you should consider is that Manning doesn't want to be signed.
Irsay is right. This is up to Manning. If he wants to come back, he can.
What exactly has 'Manning gotten from this organization'? They paid him $26 million when he wasn't healthy. That's more loyalty than anyone else gets.
@Peyton for President Yes, you are correct there. Irsay is using and spinning this.
He is not making it up, and it is not false.
The neck in regards to the fusion isn't the issue. The fusion is done and will hold. There's no specific risk from that specific surgery. That's where the 'my son could play' quotes come from.
In terms of whether he can recover and play, the only issue is his arm strength.
Whether there is any additional risk due to other neck issues (such as bone spurs) is a larger issue. Whether he's at the risk of long term chronic issues that can be made worse by playing is a side issue.
So in terms of recovery, the neck is not the issue.
In terms of his long term health, the neck is an issue.
Polian's interpretation of the workout as desperate is in keeping with the way the workout was viewed and described to me. The trainers' explanation of ramping it up as normal is accurate, but Manning's actual expectation was that he was going to run the red zone offense in games. That's right there in Banks' report.
That WAS desperate. This was not a normal workout after which he was shut down. The Banks article makes it clear Manning wanted to get in games. That can be described as nothing but irrational and desperate. He was waaaaaaay far from game ready, yet thought he could get the team to let him run just plays inside the 20? You realize that's an insane plan, right? It was all his idea too.
As for named or unnamed, none of Mortensen's sources have spoken on record. We have no idea who Mort's source is on how Manning is throwing. People putting their name on the record is very overrated. A lot of people love Peyton Manning. You should realize that some members of the press and front office are actually trying to protect Peyton's rep as much as they can while still getting the truth out there.
There's no mass conspiracy against Peyton. Everyone loves him. Everyone wants him to be healthy and play great.
@Nate Dunlevy@mattshedd@southdodger If his neck wasn't the issue then the Banks article was very misleading. I just went back and reread it to make sure I wasn't misspeaking, and the reason they didn't clear him was because of his neck. Banks states that he still hadn't regained his full range of motion and his neck muscles where still atrophy from the inactivity of having the fusion. It was his neck and obviously things have changed. Polian is the one who thought that workout, not practice, was a desperate attempt to return. The strength and conditioning staff told him a day later that they had scripted the intensity of the workout to see how Manning would respond. That is why I said above it wasn't just a desperate attempt by Peyton. It was a test that was approved by his docs. I may have called you alot of things but stupid wasn't one of them. That's why I think your misreading of Banks article is intentional. Go read the article and tell me I'm wrong. Both you and I knew of that workout already. I'll give you this, certain details of that workout were unknown but we both knew about it and knew he wasn't cleared because of it. Nothing I'd consider as "bombshell". And like all leaks from Camp Irsay the sources were "unnamed". People from Camp Manning are putting their reputations on the line by backing their statements with their names. Nobody from Irsay's camp has done the same. They always choose to remain unnamed. Irsay himself has been cryptic and misleading and I think it is an attempt to fool the general public who doesn't understand the injury. Irsay and his unnamed minions are the only people that I can see who are intentionaly being deceptive.
Surely you can see there's a huge difference.
Dr. Feuer still didn't clear Peyton's arm or conditioning, just his neck, and his neck was never the issue. Peyton was obviously cleared for 'football activity' in December...when he participated in football activities. That workout was a 'football activity'. So to pass off being cleared to participate in football activities as new news is nothing but an attempt to deceive.
The Colts aren't worried about this specific fusion. That's what has been cleared. The crazy quote about "I'd tell my son to play this week" refers to whether he's healed from one specific surgery, but says nothing at all about his larger health.
@Nate Dunlevy@mattshedd@southdodger "Releasing old clearances like they were breaking news". Kinda like Banks' article that you described as a "bombshell"? The same Dr. Feuer that didn't clear Peyton after the Dec workout recently cleared him. Sounds like progress to me. Irsay is still talking about not being sure how Peyton will hold up to being hit by 300lb lineman. Anyone who knows anything knows that is total BS. Irsay has made several comments that are either misleading or not true. The only proof that Manning is lying would be if you believed everything Irsay has said or leaked. I don't and for good reason. Manning's comments are consistent with Dr's statements, Polian's statements, and the statements from anyone else who has actually seen him throw. The only contradictory info has come from unnamed sources. Even the Banks article said he was throwing at about 80% in Dec. The reason he wasn't cleared to take the field was because his neck muscles weren't strong enough which isn't suprising at all considering the injury and how long it had been since he had worked out. He was out of shape. Not exactly a bombshell.
Incorrect. Had he gone out there and played a few snaps, it becomes way easier to convince teams that he's close to playing shape. No one is going to know fully what his condition really is. The docs themselves can't give any accurate word on nerve regeneration. There is always going to be some question when/if he signs with a team.
If he can get some team (and their fans) all pumped up about the POSSIBILITY that he's going to be healthy, he can score a deal that is out of line with good sense.
He's not trying to pressure Irsay at all for anything but a quick release, because once he's loose, the Colts can't really comment on his health any more and the one team that knows the truth is silenced.
@Nate Dunlevy@southdodger Yes, the Colts know his condition. Every other team in the league will know his condition before paper hits pen, so it does nothing to increase his value. Nobody will sign him without a full physical which will include throwing. The PR campaign is about leverage with the fans. The best way to pressure Irsay is to keep the fans on his side. The PR campaign is about nothing but public perception.
If he had done nothing but rest by March 8, he wouldn't get nearly as strong of looks from other teams.
Think about the misinformation campaign his camp has embarked on. Releasing old clearances like they were breaking news...all this stuff isn't aimed at the Colts. The Colts KNOW his condition. It's all aimed at creating a market with other teams.
For instance, you could be wanting to prove to the Colts that he will be back to full value, so that they pick up the option. In fact, if he wanted out, the best thing he could do was NOT push to be back healthy before the March 8th deadline.
You either have inside information or you are reading this in a bizarre way.
@Nate Dunlevy@southdodger Can I ask why you think Manning has wanted out of Indy? That just seems like a SB type of statement unless you have some credible information. And you are being extremely cryptic about where you get your information. You have been right thus far about the rest, but what led to him wanting out?
@southdodger Talking about that as I understand it. He is saying Polian was just flat lying. You'd have to ask him why.
@Nate Dunlevy When Polian was on ESPN and comments about Manning throwing well, being accurate, and making throws from one hash to the other, he was not referring to the workout as mentioned in SI. He was talking about a workout a few weeks later. Was Kraviz calling Polian a liar talking about that, later workout, or about the early workout?
@southdodger That was perhaps the biggest difference between what I was told and what Polian said. Again, Polian might be right, but I was under the impression that there had not been any real improvement and that the Colts were very concerned he would hurt himself again in much the same way he did in August when he tried to work too hard to come back.
As I said, Polian directly contradicted this. I was surprised by that, and it has caused me doubt aspects of what I heard, but revelations by Banks and statements by Kravitz have seemed to back up the things that I heard as being accurate.
@Nate Dunlevy Do you have any idea how Manning was throwing in September, prior to the fusion, and in December, after the surgery. Polian said it was 100% better. Do your sources say it was better or essentially the same?
@southdodger No one has ever said Manning cannot throw the football. Lots of people have questioned his arm strength. I don't know where he is now. I know where he was. I also know what the Colts honestly thought about his prospects.
Because I know where he was, I have serious questions about Polian's report. Other have now echoed those questions, and Kravitz went so far as to call him a liar. I can't say if he is or if he isn't. I do find Polian's words...curious and contradictory to what I know. He might be telling the truth, but I can't verify it and I have doubts.
As for the rest, if it came from Manning's camp, I take it with a grain of salt because if he was really throwing well, we'd have seen a video of it. Their ploy of spinning the 'cleared to play' news as new (even though it was two months old) has caused me to seriously distrust Mort and Schefter on this story because they knowingly passed off old news as new news in a craven way.
So there you go. Believe what you will. That's what I believe and why.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want.
@Nate Dunlevy My question to you. Do you have credible sources that are telling you Manning still cannot throw the football and is not demonstrating improvement in arm strength?
@southdodger I'm not in the Kravitz camp. Nothing I believe about this comes from Kravitz.
I'm in the camp that heard this stuff months ago and believes Manning is determined to play, but is likely going to have serious issues doing so at a high level for any length of time. I believe Manning to be entirely unrealistic about his progress, and therefore don't trust anything that comes from his camp.
I believe the Colts should bring him back for cheap because he's Peyton F. Manning. I believe that were he truly healthy, Irsay would want him back at any price, and that the Luck issue is secondary to why Manning is being let go.
I believe Jim Irsay loves Peyton Manning more than anyone and if he is ready to part ways with 18, then that tells me a lot about his true health.
Finally, I believe Manning has wanted out of Indy for months now and does not want to return, but wants to preserve his rep and is trying to make the Colts look bad in the process.
None of that has anything to do with Bob Kravtiz in any way. It just so happens that we've heard the some of the same things from different people.
@Nate Dunlevy So I take it, you are in the Kraviz camp? Manning is essentially the same today as he was in September, with little improvement. You are also selling your credibility.
@southdodger They are reporting what they are being told. That's their job. They don't "KNOW" anything. They haven't been to work outs. They haven't measured anything. They are reporting what they are told. Sources lie all the time. They spin. They can confidently report what people 'close' to Manning are saying. This is typically the agent or a an approved member of the camp.
This is how it works. They aren't lying. They aren't making stuff up. They are selling a view point from insiders.
Viewers have to decide who to believe. You can't just say, "Well, Mort said it, so it's true".
@Nate Dunlevy Do you think Mortensen and Shefter would be risking their own credibility by stating that Manning is showing improvement, when that is not the case? Their credibility is all they have.
@southdodger 1. Kravitz isn't the issue. Everyone else has heard and knows the same stuff.
2. Kravitz has one agenda: Kravitz
3. I don't think you know what Irsay's agenda is. That's what drives me nuts about fan reaction to this. People think Irsay is making this stuff up and making Peyton look bad. This info is NOT from Irsay. I know the places I've heard it and I can promise you that Irsay had nothing to do with it.
Is Irsay spinning this stuff? Yes. Is he inventing it out of thin air? No. It's an accurate description of the state of affairs. How he interprets and uses it is spin. The concerns are not new, however.
@Westhoff He has a shovel but it smells like poo.
@Westhoff ...and that's why there's nothing else to write about.
It's boring and it sucks. I know. We don't know anything about Griggson or Pagano to even speculate on what kind of players they like. There's nothing to say about this team. It's going to be terrible, and only Andrew Luck being awesome can save it.
We'll know more in a few weeks, but for now, there's just nothing to say.
@Nate Dunlevy Do you have a shovel I can borrow?
@Westhoff I don't think any of it matters. I don't care about line play.
The future of the Colts hinges on one issue: can Andrew Luck play QB?
If he can, they'll be fine. If they can't, they won't.
I assume every other player will be turned over because that's what happens when there is a regime change. Grigson said he won't, but I don't believe him. I expect almost an entirely new roster by 2013 with very little continuity.
@Nate Dunlevy You have and I've read that... I agree the team is in for another tough year. Of those you've listed I think only Garcon and Mathis would stay. But assuming what you have there, what should the team do to assure 2013 is better? Is the entire interior of the OL blown up as well? Is Pollack or Richard the answer at C if Saturday retires? Do they have the right pieces at guard. Is there any free agent pass rushers to back-fill Frathis? The linebacking core showed promise last year, do any of them project well in a 3-4? What about Foster, if the future is 3-4 is there a point in keeping him? What could they do to firm up the secondary?
I've learned from my friends that are Browns fans... when the season looks bleak, the best time of the year is the off-season and draft because it builds hope for the future.
On the otherside, maybe I should go dig a hole and live in it for year.
@Westhoff Sorry, I thought I had shared my thoughts on that before.
I think Wayne is gone. I expect Clark to be gone. I expect Saturday to be gone. I suspect (not expect) that Freeney and Mathis will be gone. I expect Garcon to stay.
The team is sunk in 2012. There's nothing to analyze. They are going to win 2-4 games. I suspect the roster will be completely gutted over the next two offseasons.
There's really nothing to analyze. They are going to blow it all up and things are going to suck for about a year.